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    We the Nations...

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    Topid
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    We the Nations...

    Post by Topid on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 3:52

    Several issues need to be decided before we begin drafting a constitution. I think it will be easier to decide these things now then write the document than to write it and then need to make fundamental changes (if that comes to pass.)

    Issues:

    Legislature:
    1) What should it be called?
    2) How many members? Or alternatively how should we decide the number of members in the legislature?
    3) How long is the term?
    4) Whether to micromanage? (This is a fairly easy issue to me... We need to reduce the amount of specifics in the constitution that were always in the CC ones. Other regions do this by passing a 'Standing Orders' for each body. This would contain the vote procedure and stuff. If we did that we'd still need to decide what goes in the Constitution and what goes in teh Standing Orders. The reason for it is the constitution shouldn't need to be changed for every little thing since it usually takes longer to change that way.

    Executive:
    1) What should head of state be called?
    2) Delegate? This is a limiting feature. If the commander and chief is also the delegate our military can't do much, as the leader's WA nation is stuck in the region. I like the idea of making the head of state someone other than the delegate. That leaves the who is the delegate question up if we do that though... Possibly an appointment or cabinet postion, which leads us to...
    3) Cabinet: What positions do we need if any?
    4) Term length for all of the above?

    Judicial:
    1) Do we have enough people? And if not do we want to use RWA's idea of an activation clause?
    2) Same micromanage issue of the Legislature. A judiciary can make a standing orders as well.

    Collective Region Group:
    This is an idea RWA brought up on MSN. We could allow other regions to join this forum/gov't organization. If so we'd have to include how to get membership here. I'd caution against allowing members to have their own regional gov't other than something small like the CC's council. Mainly because a big active regional government frequently contradicts the Collective government. And supremacy is hard to assert. But I suppose it's up for debate.

    Other:
    1) Bill of rights of nations?
    2) Perhaps a preamble that lists the purposes/goals/values of the region?

    These are just some (hopefully most) of the concepts we need to decide for the government.

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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Guest on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 12:21

    uhh *has not taken political systems yet* well I'd say for our exec officer we'd put it to a vote and then have maybe 2 others below him in charge of say foreign relations and military or something.

    at the moment we only have 22 members I think. Which means really only like 4 of us should be getting any sort of powers at all if we want to keep the governmental structure with a good control.

    As for constitution. We need to think about this, It's supposed to be like the US constitution and all of us member countries are like the states right?

    as for judicial I think we should have a head judge and then each member will take turns acting as a sort of jury. I think about 6 of us should be good for that since again we only have 22

    Senate....I hate to say this but we are really to small for this to be very effective at the moment.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by RWA on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 12:29

    My thoughts to follow over the course of the day.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Anti Neo Nazis on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 13:59

    We need a list of active members.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Topid on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 14:42

    If we had a president, a senate of 3, and a Supreme Court of 3 I think we could probably fill it.

    We could make the senate bigger later and add the cabinet later too.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Anti Neo Nazis on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 15:44

    We could start with that and expand to largen the senate and add the cabinet. but thats a good start. Once we get a count of who's actually willing to take positions and work at them we can better gauge where we're at as a region.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Right Wing Politics on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 17:23

    I don't think a supreme court of three is quite needed at this early stage, perhaps a single judge like we had back in the old days to keep things in check would be good.

    An elected senate would be a good idea I think, the president should be given the authority to create whatever departments he needs to do his job, if he can't fill them then he shouldn't create them.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Tiggressa on Mon 26 Jul 2010 - 17:48

    I think a list of who is willing to have a position is a good way to start.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Topid on Tue 27 Jul 2010 - 1:56

    *raises hand*
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Zanannia on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 13:47

    I agree with pretty much everything said here, except I think 2 is a happy medium for the Supreme Court, since 1 would mean giving someone complete power and 3 is too much to ask for at the moment.

    Daynor, are we allowed to call you Daynor, or do we need to call you Topid? Or something else, you have so many names it's hard to tell.....
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by RWA on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 13:52

    As of this time you do not hold citizenship in either region, thus we can disregard what you say.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Anti Neo Nazis on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 15:08

    I'm calling him Daynor whether he likes it or not.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Topid on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 18:09

    I'd prefer Topid, but the fact that you all call me Daynor and not CM is a good indicator of how well that will work for me. Smile

    If we had two people on the supreme court and they disagreed how would we decide that?
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Zanannia on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 18:18

    The current president would be the tiebreaker.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Right Wing Politics on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 19:48

    One judge or three, two is pointless we must have a clear ruling from the judicial branch.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Topid on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 19:52

    RWP and Anti, it'd be helpful to know if you two would accept positions in the government, so as we don't create one with way to many vacant positions.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Anti Neo Nazis on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 19:55

    I would.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by RWA on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 21:25

    Blah I forgot to post earlier. I have limited computer access until tomororw afternoon. I will have a basic overview addressing above concerns by this time tomorrow night and I will have a draft by say sometime Friday, hopefully before I go to work in the evening.


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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Tiggressa on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 22:53

    I will participate in the government I am always willing to help. Except when the real world calls for my attention of course, lol. ;-]
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by NicoPaulLand on Wed 28 Jul 2010 - 23:30

    I also refuse to call him anything but Daynor.
    I wish I has time to participate in all this. Very exciting indeed. I will only say that we cannot and should not return to old ways that did not serve us well. If this convention produces a document identical to our past institutions, we only find ourselves back in the gutter.
    Good luck guys. I'll be checking in.
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Zanannia on Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 0:06

    Three then.

    And I would be more than happy to assist, as I have more time on my hands nowadays....
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Zanannia on Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 0:16

    To contribute to the original topic, I like "The CC-US Conclave of Nations".

    And the name of the executive should be "The Consul", referring of course to the title given to the elected leader of Classical Athens, the first democracy. I think it shows a lot where our roots come from...
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Right Wing Politics on Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 4:16

    I'm more than happy to hold a position of some sort.

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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Guest on Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 14:41

    *wants a job* *pouts without a job*
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    Re: We the Nations...

    Post by Anti Neo Nazis on Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 17:16

    OK Imma get serious and actually answer the questions Daynor put forward

    Issues:

    Legislature:
    1) What should it be called?----------The region is The United States, it makes sense for it to be called the congress or Senate. I'd prefer congress because I think if we expand enough theres a possibility for a bicameral legislature.
    2) How
    many members? Or alternatively how should we decide the number of
    members in the legislature?-----Should be a ratio. One member per 8 WA citizens.
    3) How long is the term?------ A month seems fine.
    4) Whether to
    micromanage? (This is a fairly easy issue to me... We need to reduce
    the amount of specifics in the constitution that were always in the CC
    ones. Other regions do this by passing a 'Standing Orders' for each
    body. This would contain the vote procedure and stuff. If we did that
    we'd still need to decide what goes in the Constitution and what goes in
    teh Standing Orders. The reason for it is the constitution shouldn't
    need to be changed for every little thing since it usually takes longer
    to change that way.
    I agree. That was part of our downfall the last time
    Executive:
    1) What should head of state be
    called? President. It has broad spectrum appeal
    2) Delegate? This is a limiting feature. If the commander
    and chief is also the delegate our military can't do much, as the
    leader's WA nation is stuck in the region. I like the idea of making the
    head of state someone other than the delegate. That leaves the who is
    the delegate question up if we do that though... Possibly an appointment
    or cabinet postion, which leads us to... Yeah Delegate as a cabinet position makes sense. However it shouldn't limit them from holding other positions in the gov't. Someone should be able to be delegate and in congress.
    3) Cabinet: What positions
    do we need if any? Sec. of Interior. Handles recruiting and what not. Sec. of State, handles diplomacy and what not, Sec. of Defense, self explanatory.
    4) Term length for all of the above?----- 2 months

    Judicial:
    1)
    Do we have enough people? And if not do we want to use RWA's idea of an
    activation clause?Yes. 1 or 3 depending on our numbers. Needs to be an odd number.
    2) Same micromanage issue of the Legislature. A
    judiciary can make a standing orders as well.Sure

    Collective Region
    Group:
    This is an idea RWA brought up on MSN. We could allow other
    regions to join this forum/gov't organization. If so we'd have to
    include how to get membership here. I'd caution against allowing
    members to have their own regional gov't other than something small like
    the CC's council. Mainly because a big active regional government
    frequently contradicts the Collective government. And supremacy is hard
    to assert. But I suppose it's up for debate. Agree

    Other:
    1) Bill of
    rights of nations? Why not/
    2) Perhaps a preamble that lists the
    purposes/goals/values of the region? Again Why not

    These are just some
    (hopefully most) of the concepts we need to decide for the government.


    I think if theres anything we learned from CC its that we need to allow every willing participant in the region to be involved somehow. And by involved I don't mean a recruiting slave. This won't be too hard now since we have few active members but if we are to expand theres going to be a situation where we have people with nothing to do. I suggest that we explore the possibility of a citizens congress to go alongside our regular one. This would be open to and WA citizen aside from the delegate and the regular congress. They cannot pass legislation nor can they veto legislation passed by the congress but can put bills forth for the normal congress to vote on. This gives everybody something to do without worrying about giving too much power to unproven nations. I really want to avoid the cycling of positions that CC experienced in its later days. The same few people can't just rotate positions every couple months. Of course this will all come when we get numbers so recruiting should be our number one priority. Honestly if we can get TUS to be like CC was in its prime I'd be thrilled. If we can recruit our asses off hopefully one out of every ten new recruits will actually become productive (from experience that all we can hope for), the rest will inflate out numbers which is never a bad thing. I think policies on things like recruiting and things the cabinet does should be set forth officially by the respective secretaries and approved by the congress at the onset of the term. No term limits either. Term limits will either lead to inexperienced people being elected if we have a large population or the rotating of positions I mentioned above with a small population.


    Thats my rant on the subject. Seriously people we're moving way to slow on this.


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